Posts by Teary Oberon

68

Download While You Can!

by Atlantis in

credit goes to anony mous=http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/215963/1/ready-to-leak-wikileaks-style=anony mous wrote:=hi,=i have a cache of documents that are direct from the branch.

they include letters, forms, videos, booklets, instructions on how to handle everything in kingdom hall locally and rbc's financially and otherwise.=includes the branch's instructions on how to write the local incorporations so that all assets go to watchtower inc. and in case that corporation doesn't exist anymore or is no longer tax free, to the governing body (that's what it says!).

i have them for all states but only going to include ny (since that's where they are located).

Teary Oberon

@00DAD

"They officially and publicly instruct their followers NOT to pursue Higher Education and yet they rely on the expertise of people that have advanced degrees in accounting, law and architectural engineering. Why is that?"

Because

1. Most of those people they actually train themselves. If you've ever been to Bethel HQ before, then you'd know that they have some rather amazing training facilities actually built in.

2. Some of them might have recieved their degrees or education before becoming Witnesses. Nothing you can really do about that, but from a practical standpoint why waste those skills?

3. The Society encourages the same thing that Jesus encouraged: seek first the Kingdom of God, and not the things of the earth that perish and that moths and rust consume.

"In reference to your comment about it being "common sense" to get rid of old policy letters to avoid confusion, again--from a practical standpoint--I agree. However, you ignore the context of the Society's long-standing practice of revising documents and then denying the past."

The letter in the documents wasn't in such a speculative and unproven context, so why should I pay attention to it? The letter was in the context of the policy on inviting and selecting speakers, not "how to secretely murder everybody in the congregation and cover it up." Mountains out of mole hills...

"BTW, you're the one that raised question of whether any of these practices are "sinister" or not. But since you opened that door, let's go through it! My comments at least were on the facts revealed by these documents, not the motives of the source. I believe these documents help to prove a pattern of hypocritical deception and duplicity of the part of the leadership of the WTBTS."

I didn't "raise" anything. That is simply speaking an observable fact. The only reason why people here are digging through these papers so fervantly is to find "dirt" that they can use to prove sinister activity on the part of an organization which they don't particularly like. If they weren't trying to find something that they could spin into sinister activity, then they wouldn't bother stealing documents and rumaging through them like this in the first place.

Unfortunately though, the "dirt finding" has been lackluster so far (even with the inevitable stretches and straw grasping). Definitely nowhere near Wikileaks level, but more on the level of common theft of ordinary documents for no good reason.

27

As a witness, what view of the world did you have? Heres my story

by stillstuckcruz in

so heres my story:.

i just turned 20 years old.

like many i was raised as a jw.

Teary Oberon

"Oh, and "Teary Oberon" above?

He's probably an ACTIVE Witness - perhaps a know-it-all Ministerial Servant - who's coming on here as an "apologist". You'll notice that he's flagrantly breaking the rules of the very organization that he claims is, "if you want to be happy, not your religion. Learn to appreciate and make the most of what you have and who you have. ..."

You assume an awful lot don't you? Teary started out on the outside as a non-denominalist/Baptist. Then he became a fervant Witness opposer (much like all of you are now) because he had a friend that was a Witness and was worried about him/her. Next, he woke up to the misinformation being put out about the Witnesses and started studying himself, eventually getting baptized. After a few years, Teary faded and became inactive/DF'd, for quite a long time. Now, Teary is back at the meetings and enjoying himself and the association quite a lot.

As was said, a lot of these young kids who were raised their whole lives as Witnesses don't have much perspective, But Teary certainly does. He has seen the Witnesses from just about every side you can think of.

"For you, however, it is apparent that the Watchtower Corporation - Jehovah's Witnesses - are exerting an unnatural level of control over your life. In fact, they are endangering your future with their edicts against higher education, seeking better employment, saving and investing wisely, taking on overtime when possible, and so on."

Just lies and distortion there. Teary controls his own life and his own decisions, including whether or not to associate with the Witnesses. Higher education? They already give that through the Bible. But if you are talking about job training then they don't have anything wrong with that. Most of the young Witnesses Teary knew went to a Vocational School to learn skills and trades (such as cosmetology, design drafting, construction management, ect.). Teary himself has taken classes at a Tech College designed for working adults (flexible schedules and nice prices).

Saving and investing wisely? The Society has never said anything against that. In face, the Bible itself encourages wise saving with Jesus' parable of the traveling man who commanded his servants to invest his money for him while away.

Seeking promotions and overtime? Even for a non-Witness, it is wise to keep a cautious and balanced approach with those things. Teary has seen many men who have foolishly ended up putting their job and their money in front of everything else, including their own families in addition to their service to God. Very sad indeed. As the Bible says, be content with a roof over your head and food to eat, and seek the Kingdom of God first and foremost.

"Oddly enough, if you look around on this website, you'll find that most of the people here are WELL out of their "youth". Many have 'served' the Watchtower Corporation for 20 - 30 - 40 years, before finding the strength to leave - or finally being awakened by an overwhelming amount of evidence that the Watchtower Corporation isn't as "loving" or "kind" as they claim to be..."

You forgot: "for 20-30-40 years, before simply being tricked into severing their trust in their brothers because of anti-cult propaganda. But eventually, even some of those ones wake back up again when they realize that the "evidence" wasn't quite what it seemed, and that the anti-cult movement wasn't nearly as loving and kind as it purported to be."

Whether you like it or not, it does indeed work both ways (and only a person with perspective can understand that). You claim that the Watchtower is bad, and that they control their members through propaganda and false facts and social pressures and psychological tricks; but in reality, the anti-cult movement does every single one of those things themselves. It is often a case of the pot calling the kettle black, or jumping from the frying pan into the oven. The difference is though, that the Witness-to-antiWitness type (apostate in sociological terms) often get trapped in cycles of extreme anger and bitterness, while the antiWitness-to-Witness type often relieve themselves of the hatred and find more peace.

That is just how the world works :/

68

Download While You Can!

by Atlantis in

credit goes to anony mous=http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/215963/1/ready-to-leak-wikileaks-style=anony mous wrote:=hi,=i have a cache of documents that are direct from the branch.

they include letters, forms, videos, booklets, instructions on how to handle everything in kingdom hall locally and rbc's financially and otherwise.=includes the branch's instructions on how to write the local incorporations so that all assets go to watchtower inc. and in case that corporation doesn't exist anymore or is no longer tax free, to the governing body (that's what it says!).

i have them for all states but only going to include ny (since that's where they are located).

Teary Oberon

"Thanks for this info- a lot of boring stuff to wade thru though! Secrets used to be so much more interesting!"

About the only truly interesting things in the downloads were the hall designs and paperwork associated with them (but maybe that is just because I work in construction and design drafting?).

Other than that though, just a lot of legalese and routine forms. No real smoking gun here from the looks of it :/

27

As a witness, what view of the world did you have? Heres my story

by stillstuckcruz in

so heres my story:.

i just turned 20 years old.

like many i was raised as a jw.

Teary Oberon

"I just turned 20 years old. Like many I was raised as a JW. My dad is a devout elder much loved in the KH. My mother if very involved in the FS. daily witnesing, every JW cliche....she's it. All my life I've had my doubts about being a witness. Is it really the Truth? Is the NWT the true bible? Do I believe in God? All very common questions among others. I was baptised in 07'. Not because I wanted to, but because it was expected of me. And if I didnt get baptised, as you all know, your looked upon as bad association, goaless, and "on the border", even worldy. My brother did it, so I did. I've been falling off in the past two years. I havent done much of anything. I avoid FS WHENEVER possible. When I do go out, I leave the magazine and say "have a nice day", hoping I won't get "brotherly" advice from whomever i'm working with at the time. I give comments at the meetings maybe once every two months. I associate with no one from the hall. Not that there's any "good" association anyway thankfully in our hall. I look forward to work three days a week to give myself something fun to do. (love my job at Disney). Currently i've been given several assignments at the KH. Mike carrying and stage. #1 &3 talks. woohoo . I avoid them if possible. Fake sick or something. My parents have noticed my stone "progress" and have discussed it on many occasions with me, attemting to subtly "encourage" me whenever they can. I ignore it. I love them but just don't want to disappoint them, which will happen inevitably when I leave and they'l likely never speak to me again. Great work Society. . Anyway, main question is...what sort of view of people and the world did you have as a witness? At work theres an elderly woman that I see every so often. She is beaming every single day and when I ask how she's doing, she says in the most sincere way that she is soo blessed and happy. When I see people like, I can't help but think what am I doing."

Only 20 and grew up around the Witnesses? You probably hate hearing this, but those who grow up around the Witnesses typically do have a complete and utter lack of perspective, along with lack of appreciation for what they have. But that is common--teens and young kids from every walk of life, Witness or not, tend to not appreciate what they have until they've thrown it away and burned down the bridges leading back. Such is the folly of youth...

Another ancient saying: you get what you put in--if you put in nothing, then you get nothing in return. You say that you avoid participating in meetings, you make no effort whatsoever to get to know anybody, you only work in FS barely enough to hate it and you aren't honest and open with your parents. That is not on the WT, that is on you. It is a Hell and isolation of your own making, and it will probably not go away simply by leaving the WT. You'll find a new place, it will be great for a few months to a year, and then the newness will fade and you'll fall into much the same pattern of boredom, distrust and isolation. You've got to change your attitude first and foremost if you want to be happy, not your religion. Learn to appreciate and make the most of what you have and who you have.

68

Download While You Can!

by Atlantis in

credit goes to anony mous=http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/215963/1/ready-to-leak-wikileaks-style=anony mous wrote:=hi,=i have a cache of documents that are direct from the branch.

they include letters, forms, videos, booklets, instructions on how to handle everything in kingdom hall locally and rbc's financially and otherwise.=includes the branch's instructions on how to write the local incorporations so that all assets go to watchtower inc. and in case that corporation doesn't exist anymore or is no longer tax free, to the governing body (that's what it says!).

i have them for all states but only going to include ny (since that's where they are located).

Teary Oberon

Feb 8, 2011

"However, it
has been observed that some congregations continue to have an overstock of older publications
that will likely never be used. To assist congregations in handling those publications, the branch
office is directing that circuit overseers approve the discarding of some specific older publications."

Overstock of old, random and seldom used things was always a problem at my congregation and at numerous others that I have visited ("Kurukshetra to Armageddon," "Path of Divine truth," "In Search of a Father," ect. They have them in stock, yet I've never seen anyone actually use those tracts). The "specific" I suppose is just in there to help keep the local elders restrained, so that they don't start going on a discarding spree of their own and get rid of either too much or things that they should really keep (or that they might be able to shuffle around to other congregations instead of just discarding).

68

Download While You Can!

by Atlantis in

credit goes to anony mous=http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/215963/1/ready-to-leak-wikileaks-style=anony mous wrote:=hi,=i have a cache of documents that are direct from the branch.

they include letters, forms, videos, booklets, instructions on how to handle everything in kingdom hall locally and rbc's financially and otherwise.=includes the branch's instructions on how to write the local incorporations so that all assets go to watchtower inc. and in case that corporation doesn't exist anymore or is no longer tax free, to the governing body (that's what it says!).

i have them for all states but only going to include ny (since that's where they are located).

Teary Oberon

@yourmomma

I don't post on forums? Where did you get that? I have been posting on various sites for many years now.

Sure you aren't thinking of somebody else?

68

Download While You Can!

by Atlantis in

credit goes to anony mous=http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/215963/1/ready-to-leak-wikileaks-style=anony mous wrote:=hi,=i have a cache of documents that are direct from the branch.

they include letters, forms, videos, booklets, instructions on how to handle everything in kingdom hall locally and rbc's financially and otherwise.=includes the branch's instructions on how to write the local incorporations so that all assets go to watchtower inc. and in case that corporation doesn't exist anymore or is no longer tax free, to the governing body (that's what it says!).

i have them for all states but only going to include ny (since that's where they are located).

Teary Oberon

On the various issues though:

1. The standardization of building plans only seems sinister or odd to those without any experience in the construction or design industry. But to those with experience, design standardization is a normal, efficient and intelligent way to avoid wasting time and resources.

2. The instructions to get rid of the old policy instructions from the official congregation file and replace them with the new instructions didn't strike me as "sinister" or shady at all--rather, it was just common sense. The new policy letter regarding public speaking (a truly sinister subject right?) was sent to update and consolidate the previous policy letters on record, so it would really make little sense to keep them all in the official cong. records that elders go to for reference. It might end up causing confusion.

3. That ammount of legal paperwork and instruction is actually less than what I would expect, but still not really sinister unless you are just really, really wanting to turn it into something sinister. You can't spend upwards of $100 million a year in donations taking care of special pioneers and workers, along with printing all the publications and building hundreds of Halls a year, without a strong accounting and legal department. And what are the alternatives anyways? Would the posters here rather them deal with those kinds of donations WITHOUT any accounting or legal policies in place?

4. The one that stole these documents in the first place might end up in some real hot water if he is not careful, especially if he didn't have any legal right to use and distribute those documents. Research and dig up all the dirt you want, but don't go around breaking the law doing it. You take yourself to an even lower level than those that you wish to destroy.

Teary

68

Download While You Can!

by Atlantis in

credit goes to anony mous=http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/215963/1/ready-to-leak-wikileaks-style=anony mous wrote:=hi,=i have a cache of documents that are direct from the branch.

they include letters, forms, videos, booklets, instructions on how to handle everything in kingdom hall locally and rbc's financially and otherwise.=includes the branch's instructions on how to write the local incorporations so that all assets go to watchtower inc. and in case that corporation doesn't exist anymore or is no longer tax free, to the governing body (that's what it says!).

i have them for all states but only going to include ny (since that's where they are located).

Teary Oberon

"Includes designs etc. (but not the Autocad design files, I don't think anybody wants to actually build a KH)"

Says who!

Teary has made up fire evac and tornado safety plans for the local congs. from scratch (including manual recreation of the original paper plans in AutoCAD). Having actual pre-made CAD files would have been wonderful! >:P

26

Victoria, Australia: Report on Sept. 13th hearing involving Steven Unthank

by AndersonsInfo in

i received the following information from the xjw in australia who agreed to keep us all informed of whatever takes place at court hearings that involve steven unthank and the five watch tower entities that were recently criminally charged in victoria, australia.. .

this is the report for the hearing held on september 13, 2011.. .

barbara.

Teary Oberon

@Gayle

But then again, everything that you talk about boils down to simple religious differences and value judgments. While those things are all well and good in a casual conversation, they don't belong in a court of law.

And as far as the court case goes, some of the parties that Mr. Unthank named were indeed quite silly and unnecessary for achieving the stated legal goals. Heck, he might as well have just called the angels or God himself to the stand...

26

Victoria, Australia: Report on Sept. 13th hearing involving Steven Unthank

by AndersonsInfo in

i received the following information from the xjw in australia who agreed to keep us all informed of whatever takes place at court hearings that involve steven unthank and the five watch tower entities that were recently criminally charged in victoria, australia.. .

this is the report for the hearing held on september 13, 2011.. .

barbara.

Teary Oberon

"One observation that could generally be noted by anyone paying particular attention to the proceedings was the relationship that Mr. Unthank had with those in court. He was comfortable, appeared to know everybody, talked with the Police Prosecutor, and was on a first name basis with almost everyone including the Bench Clerk who is responsible for the administration of the court.

Even the Police Prosecutor, who had about twenty cases to deal with, appeared to be friends with Mr. Unthank. I would not be surprised if they met up for a few beers afterwards."

Well just from an objective standpoint, those statements really worry me. Whether you agree with the Witness side or not, you should still agree that it is ethically dangerous to be flirting with "court room cronyism" like that. I fear that they are likely to end up with another kangaroo court witch hunt like the Walsh trial if they are not careful...

As for the "they got accused therefore they have to step down" arguments, I think that those are rather exagerated. Witnesses get accused of all kinds of silly things all the time because of religious bias and persecution and such (the conscientious objectors in Armenia and other countries have been "accused" and often jailed, but does that mean that they should be disqualified from serving their congregations?).

Let Mr. Unthank actually prove his case first (since has the burden of proof), then you all can start calling for resignations =P